Ins and Outs of M/M Romance: Josh Lanyon – Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Publishers (But were Afraid to Ask)


When I asked Josh Lanyon to be a part of this series I didn’t understand how seriously he took his responsibilities to help new M/M authors until I saw his post and realized how hard he must have worked, and how much time he must have spent putting this piece together. I know his horrific writing schedule and I’m amazed he managed to find the time for this article. For those of you who don’t know very much about Josh, I took the liberty of copying his bio off his site, which sounds very official:

A distinct voice in gay fiction, multi-award-winning author Josh Lanyon has been writing gay mystery, adventure and romance for over a decade. In addition to numerous short stories, novellas, and novels, Josh is the author of the critically acclaimed Adrien English series, including The Hell You Say, winner of the 2006 USABookNews awards for GLBT Fiction. Josh is an Eppie Award winner and a three-time Lambda Literary Award finalist.

Of course I would have used words like “awesome ” and “hot” to spice up this bland bio, but he made me promise not to change a single word, or he won’t be back. :) However I can say that Josh offers M/M manuscript evaluations for authors who are looking for this service (and he didn’t pay one dime for this ad) :) Josh’s book Man, Oh Man! Writing M/M Fiction for Kinks and Cash is available everywhere and if you’re an M/M author, or just aspiring to be one, this is a valuable resource that you can’t afford to be without.

Here, now, is Josh’s contribution to this series, and what a contribution it is. Thank you, Josh, for this very informative and helpful article which I know that authors everywhere will value.


Before we delve into what to look for in a publishing partner — and what to avoid — I want to point out that this post relates to niche publishing with small and indie presses. Much of what I’m discussing here is a non-issue in mainstream publishing.

With so many mini and micro-mini presses popping up in the m/m genre, it’s important to be clear about what you should be looking for in a publishing partner, including what publishers can offer that you can’t easily achieve on your own. We write for ourselves. We publish for others. Thanks to Amazon and the Kindle program, more and more authors in our genre are biting the bullet and becoming their own publisher — with varying success.

Enthusiasm, energy, and even experience as an author will only take you so far. Publishing requires its own skill set. The bottom line: we’re not all cut out to be publishers. Even our own publisher.

That said, a couple of the very best publishers I work with started out as self-publishers, and every week I seem to notice another author turned publisher. For these entrepreneurs, the old saying still goes. If you want something done right, do it yourself.

As one highly successful author/publisher put it:

My overall gripe is that I don’t think most e-publishers and their staff are professionals. They’re more like enthusiastic amateurs. And they’ll try to force weird things on authors like weird editing or horrible covers, and treat authors like they don’t know any better. Sometimes we do.

On the other hand, there’s no question that there’s a certain validation that comes from someone not related to you being willing to plunk down their own hard earned cash to publish your work. So much so, that as I think through this post I know that a lot of what I’m saying will fall on deaf ears. When your dream is to be a published writer, it’s very hard to turn down an offer to make your book a reality, even if you know in your heart you’re signing a less than favorable contract.

Guess what? That’s okay so long as you go into that contract with your eyes open. The fact is, our needs change throughout our publishing career. When you’re starting out, the imperative is simply to get published. Getting into print is often the next goal. As you move up the publishing food chain, you’ll find creative control and creative partnerships become more of an issue.

This might be hard to believe if you’re currently still unpublished, but no matter where you are in your publishing career, a publisher is not doing you a favor when he or she signs you. A publisher contracts your work because s/he believes it will appeal to enough readers to make it worth his investment. You contract your work to a publisher because you believe you will be able to reach more readers with the tools the publisher offers than you would be able to do on your own. Within that basic publishing paradigm there are the usual variables. I’ve signed with publishers because I wanted to work with a certain editor or writer or because I wanted to support a certain political or social cause, but most of the time I sign with publishers because I think I’ll make money with them.  I’m a professional writer and I support myself with my storytelling. I’m in business, and my business is writing.

But the reasons that I stay with a publisher are more complex. I’ve been in the business longer than any of my m/m publishers have been around. Frankly, at this stage in my publishing career, I do expect to be treated differently than a first time writer. I expect to sell stories on proposals rather than completed manuscripts, I expect to have my occasional problems or questions treated respectfully and taken seriously, I expect to be kept up to date on changes regarding my book releases or anything else that specifically concerns me. In short, I expect to be treated like a valued equal. I expect to be treated like a partner.

I threw out the question What do you look for in a publishing partner? to my fellow writers and we came up with a wishlist. I think it’s interesting to note here that nearly all the writers I spoke to were mostly satisfied with their current publishers. When authors aren’t happy, they tend to move on. There are a lot of publishers out there. (There are also a lot of authors, which is why publishers with less than favorable business practices can usually survive for some time.)

Qualities to look for in a potential publisher:

This is both philosophy and attitude. The relationship between publisher and author is a symbiotic one. Neither can survive without the other. Yes, there is a never-ending supply of cannon-fodder-authors desperate to be published, but the best authors have multiple choices in publishers. You can tell a lot about a publishing house by checking out the current author roster.

And then contact some of those authors, past and present, and compare what they have to say. Compare. That means talk to more than one author. Ask them about such things as communication, transparency, accountability, integrity, and quality.

The clock starts on this one with your initial submission to the publisher. Come to think of it, it starts before that. It starts with the first time you check out the publisher’s website. Is it easy to find your way around their site? Are their submission guidelines clear? Is the submission process easy to follow? Are they easy to contact? Do they respond in a timely fashion? Are they courteous and professional? This is all the easy part. If you run into problems at this stage, chances are you’re going to have that failure to communicate throughout your publishing relationship.

Ironically, the inability to communicate effectively is one of the number one complaints authors have about their publishers. Things that authors would like to have communicated? Everything from being kept apprised on publishing schedule delays to information on how to market and promote their work.

Publishers that score highly on communication: Ellora’s Cave and Samhain. And the new kid in town, Carina Press, holds periodic and highly informative conference calls with their authors. Color me impressed.

To some extent we all have to take our publishers on trust. Which is why you want to ask around before you jump into bed with the first publisher who asks nicely. Yes, we can all call for accounting audits, but I’ve yet to meet an author who’s done so. There is a lot of lump sum accounting in this segment of the publishing industry. However innocent, it encourages inaccuracy.

A proper royalty statement should, at the absolute minimum, break down sales by vendor and by dollar amount.

Speaking of money, here’s a deal breaker in contract negotiation: royalties paid on net. The Author’s Guild (a highly recommended resource) is very clear on this one. Hold the line and do not sign any such contract. Royalties should be paid on gross or retail cover price. A very good explanation of why you don’t want to bend on this issue can be found right here:

A publisher, particularly an ebook publisher, who can’t afford to pay royalties on the retail price of a book is doing something wrong. You don’t have to take my word on it. There are many, many articles by those far more experienced and savvy than me.

When it comes to transparency in accounting, Loose Id does an especially good job. Their monthly royalty statements are probably the most detailed and easiest to read of any publisher I’ve worked with.

Publishing houses are made up of people, and people are fallible. Mistakes happen. Sometimes they’re little insignificant mistakes — imperfect copyediting — and sometimes they’re big ones — changing a book launch date and forgetting to let the author know. Authors don’t get it right all the time either. We miss deadlines, we ask dumb questions, we don’t like a lot of the cover art we see.

The goal is not to find a mistake-proof publisher, it’s to find a publisher who acts like a grown up when mistakes happen.

Or as author Angela Benedetti put it:

One important thing to remember is that everyone, and every business, does make mistakes. Don’t look for a publisher who never makes mistakes, because they don’t exist — look for a publisher who’ll respond quickly when a mistake is pointed out, fix if it can be fixed, or otherwise own the mistake and apologize for it, and try to do better next time. Same with anyone else you do business with — I don’t want to know whether they make mistakes, because everyone does. What do they do after they’ve made the mistake? That’s what separates the good businesses from the bad ones.

Among the publishers whose authors love them loudly and in public are Torquere, Dreamspinner Press, Amber Allure, and MLR Press. That kind of passion and loyalty from authors means something.

This is one of those tricky ones. How do you know if a publisher has integrity? Again, ask around. Talk to authors on the publisher’s roster.

One clue might be longevity. It’s possible to conduct bad business and still stay afloat for a certain period of time, but after a few years the word spreads and the bad business practices catch you up. A press that’s been around for a reasonable length of time — say five years or more — is probably doing something right.

Another clue is professionalism.  Author Jess Faraday put it this way:

This is hard to judge until one has actually interacted with a publisher, but things that turned me off during my search included misspellings on the website, a bad website, poor articulation of policies, and lack of transparency in policies. After I did sub to BSB (Bold Stroke Books), I was impressed that they contacted me exactly when they said they would to the day, the contract was easy to read and they encouraged me to show it to an agent or lawyer before signing, and my editor and the marketing department contacted me within two weeks of acceptance.

A lot of publishers attend conferences and book fairs. Take the opportunity to observe them in action. See how they conduct themselves. How they treat readers and authors and other publishers. Do they play well with others?

A publisher who backstabs another publisher to you or discloses information about one author to another is a publisher behaving badly. You want to partner with professionals. Or, at the very least, grownups.

Two publishers I’ve worked with that have struck me with both their integrity and professionalism are Blind Eye Books and JCP Books. Lethe Press also has a solid reputation. And yet I don’t think BEB or JCP have passed their five year mile mark, so…it just goes to show that none of this is set in stone. You must take each publisher on a case by case basis.

This is one where it makes sense to listen to what readers have to say about a particular publishing house. Readers will be frank about things like cover art, copy-editing, ease of ordering in a way authors may not be — may not even be aware of.

A major key to quality has to do with how much a publisher is willing to invest in editorial staff. Editorial staff includes both content editors and copyeditors. Content editors are the editors responsible for acquiring work and developing authors. Finding the right content editor is one of the most important creative partnerships an author can form.

In mainstream publishing you rarely have authors serving as editors. There are several reasons for this, but one of the most obvious is that you don’t have to be a great writer yourself to understand, appreciate, and teach great writing. There are different skill sets involved and sometimes terrific writers, are not terrific editors. Or, let me put it this way: the best doctors are usually not also patients. Not at the same time, anyway.

Here in niche publishing, authors often pull double duty. I’ll just be frank. My preference is for editors who are not concerned with building their own writing careers and competing with me within a publishing house for promo dollars and shelf space. But I’ll allow that there are exceptions to any rule.

Copyeditors are a different thing entirely, but ideally they should have a rudimentary understanding of style and a decent background in literature as well as being trained in the rules of grammar and punctuation. In this genre, finding truly qualified copyeditors seems to be like the quest for the Holy Grail. I suspect that might be because they are often paid in books rather than cold, hard cash. There’s a reason that, despite all the cutbacks in mainstream publishing, big publishers still pay for copyediting. It matters.

In fact, you get what you pay for seems to be pretty much the golden rule of niche publishing. Hideous cover art, nonexistent editing, and house “style” manuals put together by people who apparently learned to write from eHow are all too prevalent here. Again, don’t take my word for it, listen to what readers have to say. They’re pretty vocal on the subject.

The closest I’ve seen to rigorous copyediting that meets mainstream’s standards would be Samhain Publishing. Granted, I haven’t worked with all of the publishers in this genre, but as I was surfing the net for this article I found my own experience to be backed up by what others had to say. Samhain’s copyediting has a terrific reputation with reviewers and readers.

And now a few thoughts in general about contracts:

I know this is hard. If you’re at the stage of looking over a contract, you want to sign. You badly want to sign. I understand and I sympathize. And here’s the sort of good news. Sometimes it makes sense to sign a bad contract. Sometimes the benefits of a bad contract will outweigh the negatives, but at least understand the implications of the negatives before you sign.

First and foremost: no matter what it is, get it in writing.

This can be awkward. I once signed with a start up publisher who I considered to be a good friend. We were both taking a risk, that was a given, but my friend promised several times in writing and verbally that if the day came, and I was unhappy, I would be released from the contract. The contract did not reflect this escape clause. I knew I should insist on it, but…we were friends. It seemed rude. It seemed untrusting to make an issue of it. I couldn’t imagine the day would come when I would be that unhappy.

I don’t need to tell you how the story ends.

Get it in writing.

We’ve already talked about being paid royalties on gross not net. Don’t take my word for it. Read the extensive information that’s out there. Please understand that in this, we authors must have solidarity. If too many of us are so desperate to see our name in print that we cave on this fundamental issue, we weaken the ability of all authors to make a decent living now and in the future. The publishing industry is in flux. At times it appears to be a war zone. Each time we fall back on one of these crucial negotiating points, we lose ground that is unlikely to ever be regained.

Don’t accept less than 30% royalties on ebooks. Mainstream publishers already don’t pay the royalty rates on ebooks that we receive here in niche publishing. They pay around half. It is not inconceivable that the day will come when one of our niche publishing partners proposes twenty-five percent royalties in exchange for…well, I’ll leave it to your imagination. Superior distribution? Greater marketing and promotion? I can hear it now.

It’s a slippery slope. Don’t take that first false step.

One of the single most important things to watch for in any contract you sign is a time line and end dates. Attaching timeframes and dates to the following points are especially important: how long the publisher can hold off on offering a contract — this pertains to having previously assigned the publisher first refusal to your next work or the next work in a series or featuring major characters from a previous work; how long the publisher can hold your contracted work without actually publishing it; and, most important, how long the publisher will hold your copyright to the work.

Mainstream publishers hold your print rights (and increasingly your ebook rights) for an industry standard of seven years. The trade off, the thing that makes it worth your while to hand your rights over for so many years, is that mainstream publishers are offering advances against royalties (yes, those advances are dwindling, but while five thousand dollars might be chicken feed to Stephen King, it still makes a difference to the rest of us) and doing actual print runs to get your books into brick and mortar stores. That’s significant revenue. A publisher using POD technology is not offering you a significant advance, is not doing print runs, and is not getting your books into bookstores in comparable numbers to a traditional mainstream press. You do not want to hand over your copyright for five to seven years to a publisher using POD. This is not to say that POD is not a perfectly valid technology or that publishers using that technology are not serious industry players, but it is not reasonable or fair for a publisher to demand the same rights without being able to offer the same advantages of a mainstream publisher.

If the book does well for you both, you’ll happily sign on for another year or three. If both partners are not happy, then it’s not an equitable arrangement. It is not a true partnership, and we should always be looking for partners in our publishing life.

One other thing on that first refusal clause — this is another one I learned the hard way. Exclusive options and first refusals are standard in mainstream publishing but it is also standard that the terms will be equal to or better than the original contract.

For example, Simon & Schuster’s contract reads: The Author grants the publisher an exclusive option to acquire the Author’s next (i.e., written after the Work) full-length work of XXXX for publication on mutually satisfactory terms.

And it gives them 60 days to make up their minds.

That “mutually satisfactory terms” is the key. An exclusive option or a first refusal or something similar that doesn’t include that phrase basically means the publisher has the right to acquire your next work on any terms they choose.

Now, that could probably be taken to court and argued, but who has time, money, or energy?

This is a non-issue for most of the publishers in our field whether they include that clause or not. In fact, in all my years of publishing, I’ve only known one publisher try to slip past a contract where the terms had been changed to less favorable ones. Since any publisher of integrity is not going to quibble on this point, I’d like to see it made standard in the contracts of all our ebook and indie publishers.


If PUBLISHER extends an offer of publication on the new work, it shall be on terms no less favorable than in this Agreement. If PUBLISHER does not accept for publication this additional WORK within 60 days of submission, it will be considered refused and the AUTHOR will be free to market rights to the new WORK without encumbrance.

Better yet, I’d like to see the first refusal option waived as Carina Press is doing.

There are other points to be discussed and debated, but this blog has run long as it is. I hope all this information will prove useful to you.

I should say at this point that while this post has focused inevitably on a lot of negatives and things to be wary of, I personally have very few complaints about almost any publisher I’ve worked with. By en large my publishers are great to deal with and seem to care just as much about the quality of the work as I do. I love my editors and I feel that I have done better working through publishers than I’d have done on my own. I appreciate the fact that my publishers are willing to invest in me and my work, and I like to believe that our relationship has been equally satisfying and rewarding — which is what partnership is all about.

Josh Lanyon’s Contact information



71 thoughts on “Ins and Outs of M/M Romance: Josh Lanyon – Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Publishers (But were Afraid to Ask)

  1. LadyM

    If I ever pass the stage of wishful thinking (“I can really write something.”), I’ll make sure to have this post bookmarked. It’s very informative and honest and it really shows the effort and time it took to write it. All the future writers should read this.

    Thank you, Josh & Wave.

    1. josh lanyon

      Thanks, LadyM. It’s surprising to me how uneasy folks are discussing some of these points in public and in broad daylight, but this is all very basic stuff that any writer should at least consider before she signs a contract.

  2. Jordan Castillo Price

    Ah, Josh, it turns me all to goo that you called me the P-word (professional!) I think when your operation is still as small as mine, professionalism is critical.

    I think it’s also critical for the editors, artists, line editors, proofers and admin assistants to get paid in cash, period. Not free books. Cash. As a small press owner, I pay everyone in money before I get paid myself. I couldn’t imagine doing it any other way, nor would I ever work for someone who said, “Okay, here’s a free copy. Thanks!”

    1. josh lanyon

      Jordan, I’ll admit that I was startled to realize how quickly out of the gate you were able to pay the people who work for you — but that investment is returned by the quality product you put out.

      And the thing I wish more people in business would understand is it’s actually far cheaper in the long run to just do it right the first time.

  3. Junkfoodmonkey

    Excellent article, and timely for me. I’ll be reading it again. And saving it offline. And printing it. :D

  4. Tam

    Wow, I’m dazzled … and confused. LOL Maybe only lawyers should be writers. Great advice and even if you only pick out one or two of the important pieces it can make life easier. I think resisting that urge to get your name in “ink” (virtual or real) at any cost is the trick. I bought something recently and it was $2.50 for 10 pages (ACK!) and had zero formatting so to speak, picture, single space, copyright, single space, the word “Content”, single space, story. So I think by looking at the books you read and appreciate at least for the outwardly professional image (you can’t tell as a reader whether they pay on time) you can eliminate some of the dodgier publishers out there.

    Thanks for the super and comprehensive advice.

    1. Wave Post author

      I was hoping that you wouldn’t read this article because if you win the Fun Writing Competition you will put me through hoops and demand actual payment rather than a free book. Damn!! I was going to delay publishing Josh’s article until all the entries had been received but I guess that wouldn’t have been fair to all the writers. :)

      1. Tam

        But we all know I’m easy when it comes to you love. Probably a pat on the head would suffice. :-) And your eternal adoration of course.

    2. josh lanyon

      HA. This is the simple version. The very simplest version. But getting a lawyer to look over a contract is a very smart move — the only reason I didn’t rec it for this article is in this subgenre most of the first time authors will not earn enough to pay for that lawyer.

      1. Tam

        I’ll just make some points I’ve discovered as a Canadian who would most likely deal with an American publisher (although I think there are a couple of Canadians).

        When you sell (even self-publish on Amazon kindle) and you are a non-American, the US government witholds 30% of royalty payments UNLESS your country has a tax treaty with the US (which Canada does). THEN you have to fill in a W8-BEN form from the IRS. BUT, you need something called a ITIN number which has the US government acknowledging you are a foreigner and your country has a tax treaty with the US. To get the ITIN number you fill in a W7 form and send it with proof of citizenship (notarized passport = $50) and wait 6-12 weeks for your tax number.

        So any foreigners who are even vaguely thinking about this it might be worth it to get that magical ITIN number NOW, it’s good forever. You can publish at Amazon or Smashwords without it (and most regular publishers I assume) but they will likely withold payment at your request until you get the number to avoid the hassle of trying to get the withholding tax back, if you even can.

        There are also agents who can receive the application abroad which should avoid the notarization fee (or you can send original documents but I was NOT putting my passport in an envelope and HOPING it came home – it’s all on the IRS website) but the big chain here in town wanted to charge me $500 for what is essentially a free service. There is no fee to get an ITIN number.

        So there is my helpful hint for foreign authors. It’s not just the publisher but the government of the publishing country who demand you jump through some hoops if you aren’t a citizen.

        1. Mara Ismine

          Good idea to mention that Tam, but I’m not sure you can do it ahead of getting published. I’m partway through the process (just waiting to go to London and the US Embassy to get the number) and as I understand it a valid, current publishing contract is required along with photo id and proof of citizenship.

          1. Tam

            No, anyone can get an ITIN number. You can even get one for kids. The parent signs for it. It’s just a tax number which you may never use. You then use the W8-BEN to actually send to the publisher to get the withholding tax exempt. The ITIN is not ONLY for royalties, it can be for any income you earn in the US, the W8 is for the royalties specificially (along with a lot of other things).

            This is what the IRS website says

            “An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN).”

            Certainly dependents would not have any publishing contracts. The notarized passport works for photo ID and citizenship for me. The Embassy here won’t accept applications so I mailed it in. I applied for one for my daughter as she wants to go to school in the US in a few years and won’t be able to get a SSN, so it may be useful and since it costs nothing (but my time and trouble) I applied.

  5. katiebabs

    This is incredible advice! But I heard that Carina Press’s contract doesn’t offer you an advance and holds your work for 7 years?

    1. josh lanyon

      That’s correct, KB. I don’t know any ebook publisher paying an advance of an amount of any signficance ($1000. is my take-you-seriously cut off). For me the crucial factors for signing with them were the distribution and marketing, the cover art, Angela James, the fact that mainstream copyediting would be a given, and last but definitely not least the fact that a Harlequin subsidiary was willing to try m/m.

      They pay 30% royalties and waive the first rights clause — the second being absolutely crucial to me if I’m going to try a new publisher.

    2. josh lanyon

      I should clarify a little further on the seven years thing — it’s Harlequin’s boilerplate template. Carina Press is in the odd position of being an ebook publisher backed my a mainstream publisher, so they fall into a gray zone on some of these points. I’d prefer that they didn’t hold rights for seven years — especially print rights — but I’m willing to experiment with them.

      That’s my point about making an informed decision about whether to sign something you know may not be in your best interests to sign. It’s a case by case. In this case, the fact that they waived the right to future books in what might be a series, made it easier to hand over that particular copyright.

      I do like to experiment, and I do take chances, but I’m not going to go around recommending that to newbies.

  6. Phalene

    Out of all the publishers listed, I think JCP Books has the best cover art (by a long shot) and copy editing. I think it goes a long way to enhancing JCP as a brand – it’s nice to know you can trust an author to consistently put out high quality work.

    1. josh lanyon

      My comments were, of course, restricted to publishers I’d worked with and publishers that other writers were willing to discuss, but I have to agree that JCP does a great job with covers and the editing was rigorous and realistic.

      Covers are such a big deal. Terrific cover art is a major selling point.

  7. Kate McMurray

    Great post, Josh, thank you!

    I did piles of research before I started submitting, but I’m a special breed of anal-retentive author, perhaps. (I have a day job in traditional publishing and do a little freelance copyediting work on the side sometimes, so, as you can imagine, A LOT of thought went into deciding to submit my first novel to a small press. I’m ultimately really glad that I did; my experience has been almost entirely positive. Even if I did get into some arguments over punctuation entries with my copyeditor. :-D)

    I do think the best advice is to go in with your eyes open. Learn as much as you can about the industry, about your prospective publishers, about contracts.

    I’m interested to see how the issue of editorial standards gets addressed by the industry in the future. I do think some of the smaller presses are doing it right, but good editors are going to go where the money is, so if publishers aren’t willing to pay them, it’s gonna show in the finished project.

    1. josh lanyon

      I’m interested to see how the issue of editorial standards gets addressed by the industry in the future. I do think some of the smaller presses are doing it right, but good editors are going to go where the money is, so if publishers aren’t willing to pay them, it’s gonna show in the finished project.

      I’ve heard people say things like, “There is no copyediting in mainstream publishing, either,” as though the occasional, invevitable typo was the same thing as the funky stuff that flies in self-publishing or niche-niche. All I can say is, yes, stuff slips by in mainstream publishing too, so think how horrendous it would be if they didn’t pay for qualified editorial staff.

      And yes, some of the smaller presses are doing it right. But the eccentric notions of “house style” really need to go. This stuff needs to be standardized, absolutely.

      In a recent debate on copyediting I was referred to — and I kid you not — three sites. Two by absolute unknown amateurs (one who listed her qualifications as OFFICE MANAGER FOR A FAMILY OWNED BUSINESS) and the third a re-digested version of the usual arrived-in-book-publishing-ten-minutes-ago pablum by a writer with a small special-interest indie press. And these were pointed out to me as though the opinions of these folks were conclusive proof that I was CLEARLY WRONG. :-D

      Lord in heaven.

    2. Angie

      Even if I did get into some arguments over punctuation entries with my copyeditor. :-D )

      Lordy, we should start a club! [wry smile] Lots of alcohol, war stories, special padded desks for banging heads into….


  8. Missy Welsh

    Thank you so much for this article, Josh! I’m glad to see I didn’t screw up (too much) on my first contract like I was afraid I might. Now that I’ve seen one, signed one, read this, asked around, I’m feeling more confident about doing it all again someday. Thanks again!

    1. josh lanyon

      I do want to reiterate — because I know so much of this post sounds grim — that the vast majority of publishers I’ve dealt with in m/m publishing have been straightforward and easy to work with.

  9. Val Kovalin

    Josh, this is the best post yet in this tutorial series, by far. I’m overwhelmed with information right now (which shows how much substance is in this article), so I’ll probably be absorbing it in the back of my mind for the next several days. (I’m also going to save the whole thing for future reference.)

    This is all incredibly useful info to know — everything from the contract terms explained, to the sample clause you provided, to the comparison to mainstream publishing, to the names of the publishers who are doing it right — and especially to the “slippery slope” items that writers shouldn’t be capitulating on if any of us hope to carve out an overall profession here where we get paid what we should.

    You’ve been most generous with your time, knowledge, and energy here. Talk about giving back to the community! We appreciate it. :)

  10. Ann Byassee

    I fell into my first (and only thus far) publisher by submitting a story for an open call. I was lucky. It was Dreamspinner. (I am also married to an IP attorney, which doesn’t hurt!) I have grounds for comparison, now, and thanks to this post I also have a better idea what I need to look for. In my limited experience, however, it looks like the small ebook publishers, as wonderful as many of them are, are inclined to concentrate on copyediting and let substance take care of itself. Is this generally the case or does it primarily apply to novice authors and shorter works?

  11. josh lanyon

    Is this generally the case or does it primarily apply to novice authors and shorter works?

    I think the problem is simply a lack of qualified editors all around. This is still a very young, very small sector of the publishing world. Many of the content editors are simply glorified copyeditors and many of the copy editors are simply people who love to read and got through an edition of The Copyeditor’s Handbook.

    I’m not saying these aren’t qualified people and that they don’t do a great job, but it seems to me to understimate the power and importance of editors who truly are editors — who have trained to be editors and don’t want to be anything else. Being a terrific content editor is a big deal. These senior editors are stars at the major publishing houses. These people have vast influence over what gets published and read and touted as literature.

    And being a copyeditor is a complex and demanding job — and it’s about more than knowing the rules of grammar.

    We do have some great editors in this genre, but if anything I think they tend to be undervalued. This is a genre experiencing a lot of growing pains. Which is why we all have to make the right decisions — decisions for the future — now.

    1. Wave Post author

      I did an update a few weeks ago to a poll which I had done in late 2008 in which I asked readers their opinions on a number of M/M topics. Here’s an excerpt of my summary report:

      >>Your No. 1 complaint, hands down, was that there is a definite requirement for much better editing all around, (and this includes every epublisher). Readers are frustrated with the number of errors occurring in these books, either because the publishers don’t seem to care since their sales are going through the roof regardless, and therefore they have no incentive to improve, or there is a real lack of competent editorial staff industry-wide which may explain the problem.

      It seems to me that a number of career opportunities for editors should be opening up right about now – polish those resumes. :) < <

      If you would like to read any part of the report here's the link

      1. josh lanyon

        Ah. Yes, readers are very vocal — and specific — on this one, Wave.

        And of course the whole issue of editing (although a lot of people do think of “editing” as strictly copyediting) has been a big one since ebooks first appeared on the scene.

        1. Wave Post author

          Nah, it was more than spelling errors or typos – more like green eyes turning brown and other physical characteristics that were changed, or a guy wearing boxer briefs in the same scene where he was nekkid a minute ago. :) We don’t look for this stuff – it’s all laid out in technicolour in M/M books, and we wonder who’s minding the store.

          1. josh lanyon

            Oh God. I’ve had a couple of those…a character changed names: Garibaldi became Grimaldi in one of the Adrien books. Chapter headings are mixed up. Etc. Etc. I do not believe that anyone can copyedit themselves adequately. You’ve got to have some kind of sharp-eyed backup. It’s the difference between a professional final product and…not.

  12. Eden Winters

    Josh, first let me do the fangirl thing and say that I truly love your work; you’ve been a huge inspiration. Thanks so much for these words of wisdom. I did some research before submitting my first story, but was unaware that there was so much to consider. My paltry little “what to look for in a publisher” list has just grown. Like a few others here, I am bookmarking this post.

    Wave, thanks again for hosting this series.

  13. josh lanyon

    Thanks so much, Eden.

    The first time I saw a mainstream publishing contract — 17 legal size pages of fine print — I nearly fainted. Thank God, it mostly boils down to just a few key points.

  14. Tiggothy

    Wow, thank you. So much information here, I think I’m going to be coming back to read it through again for at least the next week (and, naturally, I’ll be reading through it again before signing anything, if I get to that stage)

  15. Janey Chapel

    This is fascinating reading, Josh. It’s great to get such a wide perspective, especially when it’s so succinctly put! Much food for thought here, particularly since the M/M genre is still in growing mode. I’d like to think there are great opportunities here and now for publishers to make decisions that have a positive impact on the genre as it continues to grow, including placing value on rigorous editing. You’re right: it matters!

    1. josh lanyon

      Janey, I really think of ebook publishing as the new pulp fiction. It’s got its rough side, but there’s an energy and a creativity here that you don’t find so much in mainstream — there’s something exciting happening, and nothing illustrates it more than in m/m fiction. I am continually blown away by the originality of stories and characters here.

  16. ElaineG

    What an amazing post Josh! While I am surely NOT a writer, I was fascinated with learning the ins and outs of publishing…..It really made me appreciate all that you authors go through to bring entertainment to a book fiend such as myself. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Josh!

    And to all the authors out there that have so many OTHER things to deal with after a book is written? I hope you know that as a reader your efforts are greatly appreciated….maybe even more so now after reading this post:)

    1. josh lanyon

      And to all the authors out there that have so many OTHER things to deal with after a book is written? I hope you know that as a reader your efforts are greatly appreciated….maybe even more so now after reading this post:)

      Yep, then comes the fun of trying to promote the thing. *g* Meanwhile the next one is due…

      Yes, it can be challenging.

      The one thing you don’t ever want to do is try and break it all down to earnings per hour. That is truly disheartening. Anyone who chooses to go into writing for the money is in the wrong line of work.

  17. Liriel

    Very timely article, Josh. I just got a contract to go over yesterday. *g*

    It’s a bit nerve-wracking to move to a different publisher but so far, I’m pretty impressed with the professionalism as compared to the last publisher I dealt with. I suppose time will tell if I continue to be impressed. ;)

    1. josh lanyon

      I suppose time will tell if I continue to be impressed

      It does help to remember that any business entity is composed of people — people with all their egos and insecurities and anxieties and stressful homelives. Mistakes happen, absolutely (on both sides) but in general I’ve found most publishers are willing to work with you — unless you’re asking for something really way out there (and I don’t imagine you are).

  18. Mara Ismine

    Thanks for such a well stocked post on the subject, Josh. It has added a few more points to my checklist! It would be good if there was a specimen contract in with the submission details, wouldn’t it?

    Don’t Samhain have seven year contracts (with guaranteed print release)? Or is that just for specific calls?

    Thanks again for sharing your painfully gained knowledge!

    1. josh lanyon

      They do, yes. I don’t have a problem with it in their case because they put all my stuff into print, they pay on time and on gross, everything is stringently edited, and they’re — without fail — flexible and easy to work with. Other than the fact that the focus of their business is electronic books, they essentially operate like mainstream publishers.

      That’s that case by case basis again.

      They do have this weird thing about semi-colons, but hey. Nobody’s perfect.

  19. K. Z. Snow

    Excellent advice and observations. I might take issue with a couple of the names held up as paragons, but hey, each of us has a slightly different experience from everyone else.

    Re. the editorial issue: I’ve noticed that quality doesn’t only vary from publisher to publisher but from editor to editor within any given house. And I mean at all editorial levels. Some standardization really is sorely needed. (One of the reasons I backed away from a certain publisher was their totally capricious “house style.” I figured if they could rewrite the CMoS to suit themselves, I could start coining words to suit me. But it didn’t work out that way. *g*) In addition, editors need once again to embrace editing as a profession, not as a stepping stone or adjunct to a writing career. Adequate compensation would, of course, help.

    All in all, though, I do think there are far more exciting things happening in e-publishing — from cover art to textual content — than in mainstream publishing. More power to the people who do it well!

    1. josh lanyon

      I might take issue with a couple of the names held up as paragons, but hey, each of us has a slightly different experience from everyone else.

      I admit that this is very much a subjective post. I’d have loved to get more input from more authors, but frankly I think a lot of authors are skittish about speaking up on some of these issues in public — plus a lot of authors don’t clearly understand the contracts they’ve signed or what their other options are.

      And of course there are all kinds of publishers out there that I have no experience with and they may well have deserved a mention for good or bad. But really this isn’t about individual publishers so much as individual issues.

      Re. the editorial issue: I’ve noticed that quality doesn’t only vary from publisher to publisher but from editor to editor within any given house. And I mean at all editorial levels. Some standardization really is sorely needed.

      Absolutely. My editor at Loose Id was my first editor in m/m romance and I’d follow her anywhere.

      And I suspect one reason my copyediting at Samhain is so good is my content editor there is uncommonly good at copyediting too, so by the time the manuscript gets to the copyedit stage it’s already been through the wash cycle a couple of times.

      All in all, though, I do think there are far more exciting things happening in e-publishing — from cover art to textual content — than in mainstream publishing. More power to the people who do it well!

      One of the things that first struck me when I started investigating electronic publishing was the cover art. I was astonished at how beautiful and how professional so much of it was.

  20. K. Z. Snow

    Forgot to ask, just out of curiosity (and I thank you in advance for your answers):

    First, what do you consider a reasonable waiting period from submission to acceptance/rejection and from acceptance to publication? I mean with e-book publishers. I’ve been seeing some wide variations in timeframes.

    Second, do you think the average e-book author (meaning, not you *g*) is better or worse off if his/her work goes into print? I know that many writers, especially newbies, think that seeing their words on paper is the be-all and end-all of their careers. But I’ve also heard horror stories about returns taking enormous chunks out of royalty checks. (My own experience in this arena is too quirky and insignificant to shed much light!)

    1. josh lanyon

      First, what do you consider a reasonable waiting period from submission to acceptance/rejection and from acceptance to publication? I mean with e-book publishers. I’ve been seeing some wide variations in timeframes.

      I think there are variables here. If you’re new to the publisher and it’s a big publisher and you’re coming in over the transom (as opposed to being invited to submit) then it can take a while. It can take months. That’s something I really can’t address because it’s going to vary so much depending on so many outside factors.

      But if it’s a house you’ve worked with before, if you’ve got an editor there or you’ve been invited to submit or you’re waiting for word on the next book in a series…I think sixty days is a pretty reasonable amount of time for someone to pull your sales figures and hear what your editor has to say and decide if they’re going ahead or not.

      The thing is, an increasing number of mainstream authors are beginning to catch on to what a lucrative part of the publishing industry ebooks (from designated ebook publishers) can be, and they’re starting to submit here. So the slush piles are getting bigger and — unlike in mainstream publishing — they’re swelling with a flood of competitve work. So the lead times are getting longer at certain houses.

      Second, do you think the average e-book author (meaning, not you *g*) is better or worse off if his/her work goes into print? I know that many writers, especially newbies, think that seeing their words on paper is the be-all and end-all of their careers.

      Print has its own cachet. Everyone wants to be in print. Everyone feels like print is the valid art form, but in this genre print is not where the money is. I do better than some but that’s because I started out in print. So I have a core group of hold out readers that just prefer print and maybe always will.

      I honestly don’t think getting into print should be a big deal for most of us. I don’t think most of us should be angsting over that one because mostly what I hear from authors is how disappointing their print sales are. The vast majority of readers in this genre are not print readers — they’re totally into the new technology and being linked in. I fear that wanting to be in print is more about ego than commonsense.

      The suggestion that someone might be financially worse off for going into print is interesting. I suppose it’s possible if huge numbers of returns are hitting royalties and there was no money advanced to the author to cushion against it, but again bookstores don’t tend to buy huge amounts of POD titles (no print runs = no big stock pile) so there shouldn’t be huge returns. This is where I’d want to see some detail in the royalty statements. It’s hard to address without seeing specifics.

  21. Steve Berman

    Thank you, Josh, for mentioning Lethe Press. We’ve been around since 2001. And while there have been bumps in the road, I’d like to think we try very hard to give authors a voice and treat them fairly.

  22. Pamela L

    Hello! Sorry I’m late to the party. Excellent advice about publishing. I guess writers are so eager to be published they forget to take precautions. When they’re burned, they attack the industry as a whole, not realizing common sense and research could have saved a lot of heartache and frustration. I had a lawyer look over my first and, so far, only contract. I asked the publisher questions and received timely and courteous responses. Finally, I talked with other authors published by this house.

    I think you mentioned a writer will never find the perfect publisher, one with no flaws. How true. And one needs to decide what one will tolerate. It’s like looking for the perfect lover. Not going to happen. (Isn’t that why we write, so we can create them?) LOL

    And yes, I would like to see more commitment to better editing. As for continuity errors, one can always make a chart or list.

    I’ve rambled too long. Let me close by saying I’m a new reader to your work and really enjoy the Adrien English series.

    Just one question. When do we get to read the sequel to Mexican Heat? Darn it, I want more Gabriel and Antonio. :-)

    1. josh lanyon

      I think you mentioned a writer will never find the perfect publisher, one with no flaws. How true. And one needs to decide what one will tolerate. It’s like looking for the perfect lover. Not going to happen. (Isn’t that why we write, so we can create them?) LOL

      Right. Just as with our personal relationships, our business relationships are a series of compromises. There is nothing wrong with a compromise unless it’s…well, a compromise too far. Something that begins to cut at the bone of what’s vital to you.

      And yes, I would like to see more commitment to better editing. As for continuity errors, one can always make a chart or list.

      I use a system of highlights through the manuscript to try and tie all my loose ends up. Even so, it’s disconcerting the things that will suddenly occur to me in a final edit.

      I’ve rambled too long. Let me close by saying I’m a new reader to your work and really enjoy the Adrien English series.

      Thank you. I do appreciate hearing that.

      Just one question. When do we get to read the sequel to Mexican Heat? Darn it, I want more Gabriel and Antonio.

      Ah. Sadly, Laura and I decided against pursuing the series together. There’s always a chance she might continue on her own at some point, although I know her immediate schedule is jam-packed.

  23. A.B.Gayle

    Hi Josh
    As usual excellent advice.
    One topic that didn’t get mentioned (not criticizing as there was already heaps which I’ll cut out and keep) was promotion i.e. marketing.
    Ebooks are so different from print books in that you can’t just walk into a store and browse. Sites like Goodreads, blogs and review sites that offer excerpts are the only way many readers become aware of new authors.
    Have you found much difference between the different publishing houses in this respect?
    Even their ability to get their books into the hands of reviewers is also an important factor.
    Review sites like this excellent one are inundated with books now. Many are downright refusing to accept self-published ones and even picking and choosing from publishing house to publishing house.
    Authors are resorting to incessant tweeting and other viral marketing avenues to get their product out there.
    Is Carina going to be marketing differently seeing they have the power of Harlequin behind them?
    What do you see as ideal input from a publishing house in marketing terms?
    thanks again

    1. Wave Post author

      Hi A.B.

      Excellent point. Josh will be returning and I’m sure he will touch on other topics. He felt that his post was already too long so he didn’t want to include information that could be covered either by himself or other advisers. Marketing is a topic all on its own and can’t be covered as a paragraph, so keep watching for upcoming posts. :)

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