Do You Cross the Line? ……… by Alex Beecroft
January 13, 2012
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Today’s post by Alex Beecroft is an issue I’m sure many authors have struggled with, especially if they have been around for a while and have an established fan base in a particular genre. What will their fans think, for example, if they crossed genres from writing horrors to entering the world of romance like Rick R. Reed has done? How about moving from murder/mysteries to fantasy like Josh Lanyon did a couple years ago? Or writing a historical romance set in the 1960s a year ago and a recent fantasy novel like Marie Sexton? These are just a few examples where the transition to another genre was done successfully and the author expanded his/her fan base in the process, but how many have crashed and burned? Doing this takes a lot of guts and determination and for the authors it’s probably like entering a minefield.
Alex’s new books mentioned in this post – Bomber’s Moon and Dogfighters will be released in April and May of this year and I’m looking forward to reading and maybe reviewing them since I love fantasy. Here’s Alex’s essay:
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Here’s a topic that’s on my mind at the moment – crossovers and crossing genres. As an author I hold my hands up and confess to being a serial monogamist as far as inspiration goes. That means, if I’m fired by enthusiasm for the 18th Century, I’ll spend five or more years writing stories set in the 18th Century. And that’s great, isn’t it, because people will get used to the idea that if you pick up an Alex Beecroft book, it’ll be set somewhere around the 1750s and will probably involve sailing ships. I’ve got this branding thing sorted.
The trouble is that eventually my happy little butterfly of a writer’s mind decides its got all the juice out of the celandine of historical fiction, and flits off to the bluebell of fantasy instead, where it hopes to suck up enough sugar to last another half decade. But butterflies are flighty things, and who knows how long that will last before it’s off to the daisy of contemporaries or the purple flowering loosestrife of gothic murder mystery? And as if that wasn’t bad enough, who knows when it will cycle round to historical again and set in for a five book series set in the stone age?
From my point of view as an author, I love the fact that I can write about what takes my fancy at any time, and I’m rather pleased to know that if one obsession peters out, I can find another one. It’s much preferable, from my POV, for me to be writing from love and enthusiasm than it would be if I felt compelled to write more of the same over and over because that was what was expected of me. I think that writing something simply because I felt I ought to would make my life not worth living, and it would also lead to the slow but inevitable descent of my stories into lifeless rubbish.
At the risk of being a little controversial, I can’t help feeling sometimes that that’s what happened to the later volumes of Harry Potter, or the Anita Blake novels – the authors got fed up of churning the same thing out and lost interest, and it showed.
But I can’t help wondering what readers think of that. I, for example, know that I will read anything at all written by Ursula LeGuin, no matter what the genre
, but I will only read CJ Cherryh’s Science Fiction and not her fantasy. What about you? Will you follow an author whose work you enjoy across genres? Or do you think “oh, I wish she would stop messing about with werewolf cop romps in Barbados, and get back to her 12th Century gardening detective novels.” Does the butterfly author risk losing everything every time they try something new?
And since I’m talking about crossing lines, lets talk about crossovers too. Here I’m on even more personal territory. I’ve realised that while I love historical romance and I love fantasy and mystery, what I’d like most would be to write historical fantasy romance. Maybe even historical fantasy mystery romance. The book I had most of a blast writing was The Wages of Sin – a historical ghost story murder mystery m/m romance.
Even my new Fantasy novels, Under the Hill: Bomber’s Moon and Under the Hill: Dogfighters have a strong streak of World War II in amongst the elves and the contemporary romance. I’m trying to have my cake and eat it – trying to amalgamate all the genres I like into every story.
But again – lots of doubts. Does, say, a historical fantasy appeal to both historical and fantasy fans, or does the presence of fantasy put off the historical fans, and the presence of history put off the fantasy ones, so it ends up appealing to neither?
These are the questions that are keeping me up recently, and I don’t have any answers. What do you think? Is it a good thing if authors jump genres? Should they change pseudonym if they do to avoid confusion? Is it a good thing to amalgamate genres, or should the genres be like noble gasses and resolutely refuse to be made into compounds? And if you like the idea of crossovers, what would you like to see crossed over with what, and why?
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Alex Beecroft was born in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and grew up in the wild countryside of the English Peak District. She studied English and Philosophy before accepting employment with the Crown Court where she worked for a number of years. Now a stay-at-home mum and full time author, Alex lives with her husband and two daughters in a little village near Cambridge and tries to avoid being mistaken for a tourist.
Alex is only intermittently present in the real world.She has lead a Saxon shield wall into battle, toiled as a Georgian kitchen maid, and recently taken up an 800 year old form of English folk dance, but she still hasn’t learned to operate a mobile phone.
You can find me at http://alexbeecroft.com or http://alex-beecroft.livejournal.com I talk more on LJ 
Author Information
Pea
Sirius
As a writer, I write whatever I want to write, and hope there are readers who’ll enjoy it. I’ve been mostly into m/m for the last decade or so, but I’ve dabbled elsewhere and might move out entirely some time, although I’ll always be aware of and include GLBT characters.
When I get published completely outside the m/m romance world, I’ll use a different pseud for the new genre. It won’t be a state secret because the point won’t be to hide, but rather it’ll be a marketing tag so people who like apples but aren’t into oranges can tell what’s which without having to bother reading through the synopses.
If I ever publish anything in YA or children’s, that’ll have a new pseud and it WILL be a state secret, because there are still plenty of people who are prejudiced against someone who’s written explicit sex also writing kids’ books. Ridiculous, but there you go.
As a reader, I have some definite preferences, but I’ll at least try to follow a very-favorite writer. I was a major Judith McNaught fan when she was writing historical romances. I’m not into het contemporary, but when she switched over, I tried her first two or three. They weren’t bad — I enjoyed them more than I expected to — but I eventually stopped buying her books. If she moved back to historicals, or if she tried paranormal or something else I’m into, I’d try her again. Not into contemporaries, though.
That said, while I was sad when she changed over, I was writing even then and knew about burn-out, and about an artist wanting to explore different material. I got that she was done with historicals and wanted to move on to something fresh, even if what she moved to wasn’t something I enjoyed. I’ve never really understood readers who are not just disappointed but actively abusive toward a writer who changes genres, or even subgenres. I’ve seen it, but I don’t get it, and I have no respect for readers who behave that way. :/
Best of luck with your fantasy historicals!
Angie
PS — the 1960s are historical now? WTF?? LOL!
I definitely think that writer should write whatever she wants and the audience will find her if she stays true to herself. As a reader will I follow the writer whose work I love in the new and unknown to me genre? Most definitely -99 percent of a time I will. Heh I guess it is a good thing that Iove historicals and mysteries and fantasy – cant wait to read your book. Would I follow the writer in the completely new to me genre? Yes I will, although very few writers. The only genre I am unlikely to follow you to is a tragedy which results in death of main character. You go there – we are parting the ways, not only that, I will be mistrustful of the endings in any future books and highly unlikely to buy them till I am sure guys are not dead lol.
Thanks Angie! It’s interesting what you say about the pseudonyms. I once raised that topic on my blog and got lots of indignant, almost angry responses from readers who seemed to think that changing pen names for different genres was dishonest. I don’t really understand why it was an issue, because as you say you can quite easily make it clear that you write under these two names, and it seems more a matter of filing than anything else. (And yes, a different name for children’s books so they don’t go looking for what else you’ve written and end up reading the erotica.)
But then there’s the matter of whether each name has its own blog – and I can barely keep up with one, let alone two or three. I guess that would be a nice problem to have, though
1960s? I wouldn’t say they were ‘historical’, though they are on the border of being so, because the world was a very different place then. 1940s was what I was thinking of though.
Alex
L.A.Witt writes under two pseuds – one for het and the other for her M/M books and that seems to work well. There a bit of cross referencing between the two sites (yes she has two) but no one seems to mind. I would much prefer to know before I buy what is the genre of the book.
Definitely a different pseud for children’s books or the parents would hang you by your fingernails.
Oh yes, I think it’s vital to know beforehand what you’re getting. I suppose a different pseud makes that instantly clear. But could you not just keep a single pen name and, say, segregate your website according to genre, so that it was clear that way? (Except in the case of children’s books, of course.)
About the indignant readers, I’ve noticed some in the last few years who take it as a personal insult if a writer has multiple pseuds; it’s like they think said writer is committing fraud or something. :/ Writers have been doing it for ages, though, with and without disclosing whose keyboard is behind the different names, and I don’t imagine anyone’s going to stop just because a few readers don’t like it. It’s unfortunate that they feel that way, but it’s really not hurting anyone, and writers who do that have their own reasons. [shrug]
The boggle about the 1960s was in response to the bit in the intro.
My rule of thumb has always been that if there are people still alive who remember something, it’s not “history,” it’s still current events, and there are still millions of people (maybe over a billion? I’m too lazy to look up the stats) who remember the 60s, calling them history just makes me blink a few times and smirk.
And about the kids’ books, you’re right that having the kids Google me and find my erotica is a problem too, but I was thinking more of what Wave mentioned — what the parents and librarians and other assorted do-gooders would think if they Googled me. [wry smile]
Angie
Well, quite. I honestly don’t get why the author’s name matters, unless they’re trying to pass something off as autobiographical when it isn’t. Other than that, I don’t see why it matters who is – as you say – behind the keyboard. I suppose it makes it harder for readers who are also friends to follow an author into a new genre, but in that case I’d sort of expect the author to tell the friends behind the scene anyway.
I know what you mean about the “if it’s in the lifetime of anyone alive now it’s not historical” thing. I feel very awkward watching historical reenactors reenact wars that are within living memory. It doesn’t seem right to fictionalise people’s experience. But I can also see the point that the 1960s are not contemporary, and therefore they must be historical because there’s no place in between that you could put them.
*g* If I could be sure the kids wouldn’t get hold of the books, I would tell the parents and librarians to take a running jump, but then I’m lucky enough to be in a position to do that without having to worry about my job. I know I’d feel differently if I wasn’t.
Whoops! Sorry, Sirius, I hit the wrong reply button answering Angie’s comment. Sorry about that
But hee! Thank you
I think you’re safe from the threat of me killing off the hero. I can’t say I’ve ever thought of doing that. No matter what genre I’m in, I like to see a happy ending (or at least an “everything is resolved and now we can face the rest of our lives with a degree of hope” ending.) I’m not into books that leave you feeling depressed.
As a reader I’m with you – I’ll at least try a new genre if my favourite authors go there. But if I don’t enjoy that introduction, I won’t stay with it. They have to reconvince me each time.
I will follow a writer I really love anywhere…….I am less likely to read historical than anything else, but some of my favourite books of all time are by Mary Renault……
I can be seduced quite easily by quality writing in any genre sometimes it just needs that special recommendation to get started…..I would not have tried Lucius Parhelion but for Sirius’ reviews of this writer’s work. I never thought I’d quite simply love Faster than the Speed of Light.
I confess to not having read your work because of my odd intermittent historical bias but am now just checking out your Wages of SIn! Will also be looking foward to the fantasy novels…so in my case your diversification is a winner.
Oh Mary Renault is a star, I quite agree. The Persian Boy was the first novel I would now consider to be m/m that I eve read, and it’s still an unacknowledged classic of the genre. I really loved Faster than the Speed of Light as well – so meticulously done and although it was slow to build it was almost hypnotically intense. Loved it
You know, being a pessimist by nature, I’d thought of launching into a new genre in terms of losing people who liked my historicals. I hadn’t thought of gaining new readers who didn’t like historical. What a very wonderful thought! Thank you
Raine’s words made me want to clarify myself somewhat. I too will follow the writer I really love almost anywhere. In fact I love when writer stretches her muscles and tries different genres. So yes I am much more likely to follow a favorite writer to unknown, then to look for new authors in the unknown genre. But if I am not happy with the result, I may think to myself why don’t you stick to your previous genre and not very likely to try another attempt.
I think that’s a very sensible approach. As a reader that’s what I’ll do too – I’ll give their new stuff a try out of trust for that author. But then if I don’t like it I probably won’t try the next one in that genre, and I’ll wait impatiently for them to get back to doing what I like.
I have to say, I have no such thing as an auto-buy author. I now buy only if I think the subject matter/plot will be of interest to me. So that also means I will buy an author, no matter their usual genre, if I like the sound of it. So even if someone usually writes contemporary and suddenly switches to historical or fantasy, if I liked the sound of your story, I’ll buy it. I suppose if I know I’ve liked someone’s writing in the past it may help me to make that jump, but I would never say “Oh, I love how they write light hearted contemporaries, I don’t think they could do a dark fantasy slave story so I’m not even going to buy it, despite being intrigured by the concept/blurb/cover/font.” That just seems silly to me.
Although as a newbie author, I am developing a slight reputation for light-hearted humourous stuff and I sometimes wonder, what if suddenly in the next book the guy suffers from debilitating migraines and gets super depressed, readers are going to go “WTF? Who are you and where is what I expected? Where are the laughs?” But I think as an author you just kind of bite the bullet. What the heck, it can’t hurt and maybe people who hate light-hearted funny books will like it. Mind you, I don’t make a living writing stories, so if you need that income to feed your family, the idea of spending so many hours on a book that may be a bit of a dud in the sales dept. can be frightening I suppose.
Yes, as a reader it’s a bit of a non-question, isn’t it? Unless, of course, you’re heavily invested in getting the next in the [whatever] series. In which case the author going off and doing something completely different is very annoying. But most of the time a reader just decides whether they want to read the next book by so-and-so on the grounds of whether it sounds like the thing they’d like.
As an author though, with all this talk about branding around, it starts getting a bit anxious. “OMG, everyone knows me as ‘that person who does the sexy firefighters’. Am I shooting myself in the foot to suddenly start writing about ballet dancers?”
But as you say, you have to do it or remain in your pigeonhole forever. And a pigeonhole is fine if it’s where you want to be but most people prefer a house with several rooms.
I will follow a writer I love but that doesn’t mean that where they have gone works for me. Some writers underestimate the role of world building in fantasy or SF or contemporary stories for that matter and while they write a good relationship story the thing I am reading fantasy/SF for is missing or under-done and the contemproary story is less believable.
Others seem to have a different voice in a different genre and often it is the writer’s voice that works for me so if that changes then the shift to a new genre doesn’t work so well. Although time can help this sometimes; if I leave it for a while and am not exposed to the author in their familiar setting their new voice can emerge. Nalini Singh is one example (m/f UF) – I love her psy-changling series but while well written, her Angel books don’t grab me and Meljean Brook another. I never took to Meljean’s Gaurdian series but adore her Iron Seas alternate steampunk history stories Iron Duke and Heart of Steel (krakens and zombies and cyborgs and nanos in the sugar and people not eating sugar unless they are from America and bloody good relationships)
I think it is more a problem when an author jumps into a popular sub-genre (steampunk is a good example) where they take on the external trappings of the genre (e.g. bustles and goggles and dirigibles) but don’t get at anything deeper or allow the characteristics of the world to shape the story.
That’s very true – that sometimes you follow your favourite author over to another genre only to find that they don’t really have the love or respect for that genre to be able to carry it off. Or perhaps I should say that they carry over the concerns of one genre into another, which has its own set of problems that ought to have been faced. I think you have to know and love the genre that you’re moving to, and not just do it because you think that’s where the readers are.
The voice thing is amusing, because I’m currently writing a historical m/m romance set in Anglo-Saxon England. I made a deliberate attempt to write that in a different voice than my 18th Century voice because the source material we have from those two eras has such a different feel to it, and even discounting the fact they spoke a different language, they used it in a very different style. I wanted to reflect that. But it hadn’t occurred to me until now that I run the risk of putting off everyone who liked my 18th Century historicals. LOL! The angst
I agree with you totally that if an author is going to write, say, steampunk, it should be because it genuinely fascinates them enough to permeate the story. Just slapping different costumes on doesn’t cut it.
As a reader with a wide variety of tastes I couldn’t possibly hold it against the writer if (s)he decided to switch genres. After all, if I can read both contemporary and paranormal or fantasy fiction, romance novels and good old murder/mystery or thriller novels, why would I mind if an author wrote in several genres. If I like an author’s writing style and have enjoyed most, if not all, of their books so far, I see no reason not to try their book in a new genre.
Now if that genre was new to me, or if I’ve tried such books before and didn’t like them I’d probably pass on that book for the time being. Unless of course the blurb or excerpt sounded like I might enjoy the story despite not being “comfortable” with the genre. In that case I’d give the book a try and keep an open mind.
On a side note, I admit I’d like to read Dogfighters based on the cover alone. I’m thinking a book with planes and dragons flying the same skies must be good.
That’s a very comforting attitude, Eva. Thank you! And I agree – within my subset of genres that I like, I’m immediately happy with contemporary romance, thrillers, mysteries etc, historicals, historical fantasy, high fantasy, urban fantasy etc. And if I ever did find an author who wrote all of that stuff in a way I liked, I would gladly follow them over into genres I didn’t normally read. It’s got to be worth trying at least once.
Hee! Thank you! Yes, well, if you happen to be a WWII flying ace called upon to defend the country from dragons, why not use the skills you’ve got?
I will eagerly follow an author I truly enjoy to a new genre – with faith that the writing will be of the same great quality and therefore well worth reading no matter the setting.
But also with the hope that I might get something out of it too, namely a whole new genre to explore which might not have appealed to me initially.
There may be one or two lines I find difficult to cross, but usually with the right author holding my hand it’s less of a leap!
That’s a fantastic thought, Pen! I think I would do that too, if a favourite author suddenly started writing horror or whatever. At least, I’d be much more likely to try it from an author I trusted, and then I might get the bug. You’re making me wish Josh or Erastes would dip a toe into horror so I could follow
Alex
One of the problems of writing in a completely new genre such as SF is that the research is incredible if you want to make the book authentic. As a fantasy and SF reader I get upset when some writers skimp on the world building that is an integral component of these genres. The book is no longer a romance but becomes part of something different, and I know that many readers get upset when authors have moved from other genres to fantasy and SF and steampunk and ignore some of the building blocks of those genres. for me the worldbuilding in these genres is at times just as important as the characterisations. It’s a matter of expectations.
Re the pseuds, I guess it could work if you wanted to keep the same pseud so long as it was clear what was the genre of the different books. It’s a personal choice. You could separate the different genres on your website so readers know immediately what they’re buying.
Agreement about the SF/Fantasy. I’m convinced that a lot of romance writers who move into those subgenres — particularly on the het side, where I’ve never read anything really GOOD in SF romance or fantasy romance — don’t have any background in written SF. It honestly looks like they watched Star Trek or the Star Wars movies or similar, and decided that they knew enough to write SF.
In reality, written SF is a very different beast from filmed SF; SF movies and TV series tend to be incredibly shallow from the POV of lit SF, mainly because of time and budget constraints, but also because they need a much broader audience than a book or magazine does, to make back their investment and be successful, so it pretty much has to be flatter and lighter and shallower.
To write SF, you need to read SF — the real stuff. I’m convinced a lot of people who write SF romance (SF subgenre, romance primary genre) don’t. And it shows, if the reader has a background in written SF.
Angie
I have to admit that I’ve been disappointed by the few SF romances I’ve read – enough to stop me reading SF romance. But SF intimidates me as a genre. I don’t think I’d ever be capable of the science part of it – making sure whatever outlandish thing I wanted to do could be explained by some scientific phenomenon in our current knowledge, drawing inferences from current trends, that kind of thing. I grew up on Isaac Asimov, and I swear his robot stories, particularly The Caves of Steel are behind my love of mysteries. Ha, and that was a crossover itself, wasn’t it? SF crossed with murder mystery. No wonder it’s one of my favourite books ever.
Yes, actually, they were, and pretty darned good crossovers, too.
Did you ever read any of Asimov’s mystery-mysteries? I love his Black Widower stories; there are two and maybe three anthologies of them floating around. The Black Widowers are a group of men who get together to have dinner once a month, and there’s always an interesting guest, and the guest always happens to have a mystery to tell about. The guys listen and ask questions and discuss it, trying to figure out what happened, then Henry the waiter solves it.
Very formulaic, yes, but good stuff if you like puzzle stories.
And his Murder at the ABA (I think it was that one) has a great parody of Harlan Ellison, who was actually a good frien but Asimov was clearly aware of Mr. Ellison’s quirks. [cough/grin]
Angie
I don’t think I have! In fact I don’t know if I was aware he’d done any. I must look them up, because I read a lot of mysteries, and it would be nice to revisit an old favourite author. I’ll try and find Murder at the ABA, because that sounds awesome. Thank you!
I know what you mean, Wave. I’ve read a fair number of books which were “standard romance trope takes place in standard romance way in a place so much like modern earth we wouldn’t know it wasn’t except for the names.” That is a shame.
For my part, Fantasy is where I started and what I grew up with – I moved from Fantasy into Historicals, and it was something of a fluke that it was while I was in my historical phase that I had my first novel published. Fantasy is a case of going back to my roots for me.
But speaking in general I would certainly agree that you shouldn’t attempt a genre that you don’t read and love enough to understand at a deep level. Fantasy readers care about the worldbuilding the way historical readers care about authenticity, and if you want to write those things I think you need to care about them too.
*g* The thing with pseuds is that if I write Fantasy under one name, and Historical under another, what name would I write Historical Fantasy under? It’s probably easier to have one for all three. But yes, separate pages on the website does sound like a good idea. I’m all for that.
Alex please forgive me, but your essay makes me want to ramble on a little bit more. Re: inability of some writers who move to write scifi and/or fantasy to do a convincing world building. To me it depends on whether I will be convinced that writer truly wants to do fantasy and not just use it as window dressing for romance. Wave mentioned Marie Sexton’s latest efforts in her foreword to your post. I think it is a great example of what I am trying to say here. I thought her Song of Oestend was an attempt to create a real fantasy au universe due to some fantasy/horror w
Elements which I thought were very successful, not just to write a romance which took place in some barely sketched world. This was the book that stuck with me as one of the most memorable books of the year – so amazing I found the creepy atmosphere (and I am not a fan of horror) and fantastic IMO characters. But precisely because I thought that writer was trying to draw a bigger picture of the world romance tool place in, I was harder on it and found several elements of world building to be sadly lucking. Am I making sense? As to world building I may adjust my expectations accordingly depends on what is really happening in the book. Take Marie sexton’s latest effort “Blind space” which I also loved and which was supposed to be scifi I guess. I did not think that it was to be anything more than romance and found “evil empire with the guns” type of setting and pirates running amok to be quite okay for me “in this specific book” because characters were awesome and sweet and even changed somewhat and for the better. Anyway that’s what I was trying to say
It sounds a lot like the way I approach historicals. If I see that the author is trying hard to write a real historical setting for their romance, with characters who behave appropriately for their time, I may nitpick that book more. Not because I want them to fail, but because I know they are capable of succeeding and I respect their efforts to be taken seriously. But a romp which was enjoyable despite the author not really making an effort in the area of research can still be enjoyed as a romp, even if you don’t treat it as a serious piece of historical/SF/whatever. Have I got that right?
Good for you, Alex, putting fantasy into your upcoming books. I remember reading The Witch’s Boy a few years back, so I know you’ve had an interest in fantasy for a while.
As a reader, I’m okay with it when authors mix genres. I’ve always been a big fan of alternative-history fantasy books like all the steampunk westerns we’re now seeing in the fantasy field.
And mixing genres is how Laurell K. Hamilton kind of re-invented paranormal romance to where it’s at now with her first Anita Blake book which blended mystery + horror + romance.
I’m looking forward to reading your new books!
Thanks Val! Yes, Fantasy was my first love really. Well, that and SF – but I don’t feel I have the understanding of science I need to write SF well. I’ve tried Space Opera once or twice, but I can’t be happy with what I’ve done, so that might be something I love but have to avoid for quality’s sake.
I love alternative history and time travel and all that jazz, and rather fancy doing a Laurel K Hamilton for gay romance, except that I can’t imagine myself being able to tap into anything quite as popular as her. I wish I knew how she did what she does
Thanks so much! I hope you enjoy them when you do. Not long now. I’m very excited and nervous at the same time.
I think that a writer should write whatever book she wants to, even if it is in another genre, provided that it is very clear what books fall into which genre. This is because some readers (myself included) know that there are certain genres which they do not enjoy or even actively dislike. I won’t read in those genres even if a book is written by one of my favorite writers, and when I have bought books by following a particular author without realising that they fall into the hated genre, I have felt annoyed. I could wish that my favorite authors spent their time writing only in the genres I like (more good books which I can read!), but I don’t hold it against them unless there is lack of clarity.
Perhaps one way to think about it as a writer is that you might gain new readers by writing in a different genre – but only if you really want to write in that genre, as readers are quite astute at spotting writers who merely jump on a bandwaggon. (I hasten to add that this is NOT levelled at Alex Beecroft at all!)
It certainly makes it easier for readers if you use different pseudonyms for each genre, and you can ensure that you don’t lose readers who might follow you into the new genre by keeping the pseudonyms very transparent, and linked (as L.A. Witt does). But I also think it is a matter for authors to choose whether they use pseudonyms or not, and they certainly shouldn’t be criticised if they do so without revealing it.
Thanks HJ. Yes, I think you’re right – the key is to make sure that readers are aware right off the bat what genre a book is, and don’t risk getting one that they don’t like just because it’s packaged and indistinguishable from one of a genre they do. As a consequence of this conversation, I think I’ll go away and segregate my website. I currently have the genre of the book underneath the book cover, but it might help if they were on different pages, or at least brightly colour coded or something.
I would join you in that criticism of bandwaggon jumping
I think you spend so long on writing a book, and ideally so much care and thought, that it’s a terrible shame to waste that on a genre you don’t like just because you think it will sell better. Chances are, it won’t, because the readers will be able to tell that you phoned it in.
I think – with the Under the Hill books out in April – I’m committed now to using Alex Beecroft for m/m historicals *and* m/m fantasies, but possibly if I ever do any m/f or non-romances I’ll do them under a different name, the way LA Witt does. That seems very sensible to me.
For what it matters, I agree! I think segregating the website is an ideal way to let readers know easily which books are in which genre, while still benefitting from the goodwill which you have built up in your name. And it is not unreasonable to regard m/m as an overarching category which can encompass both historicals and fantasies.
Although I don’t feel this way, I suspect that the difference between m/m and m/f matters more to many readers than the difference between historical and fantasy, so using a different name for m/f might be a good idea.
I think that’s right too, and although I believe firmly that m/m and m/f love ought to be treated the same in real life, and that they ought not to be segregated, there is the issue of the reader buying m/f by mistake when they thought it was m/m and being squicked and disappointed.
Fortunately I can’t really see myself ever doing m/f romance, so that isn’t something I have to worry about. It’s going to be more a case of m/m romance or (Fantasy or Mystery with) no romance at all.
I’ll have a look at what I can do to de-confuse my website tomorrow
Personally, I love many genres and generally have been very satisfied when favorite authors “cross-over” and explore whatever they are passionate about. My cold addled mind can’t presently come up with any cases where I’ve felt this has not worked for me – but there may be some. I can think of some “auto-buy” authors where I have not even been able to finish a book…but not due to genre cross-over!
As was mentioned above – writing different genres could be a great way for some authors to gain new readers. For instance, I know so many people who cannot abide historicals (which happen to be my favorite) and therefore, IMO, are missing some fantastic authors. Again, though – I can’t imagine trying to write something just to say you did – without any zest in the process.
Regarding different pen names. Can’t see the necessity if we are talking staying within M/M romance, no matter if contemporary, fantasy, historical etc. There are so many resources now for finding book excerpts and reviews that it is easy to determine possible interest in a title. Also, as Eva says above, there is the power of a good cover – a dragon and a plane flying the same sky? Instant interest. I do see where different pen names would obviously be a good idea if working in completely different base genres.
Hi Diane
I’m sorry to hear that you’re feeling rotten. How good of you to comment, in that case! LOL! And yes, the only way you can be sure an author won’t put out a book you can’t finish and is a bit of a let down is by waiting until they’re dead and their output is fixed and known. So following them into other genres is only a larger instance of the same sort of risk you take with every new book.
I have to confess that I did write “Shining in the Sun” just to see if I could. I’d never done a contemporary before. It turned out that I very much enjoyed the process but also used up all of my ideas at once. I can’t really imagine doing another one because I don’t know what else I could do. So I have to have sympathy with the desire to try a new genre to see if it suits you, but doing it despite an aversion to the genre, I can’t see.
I was coming to that conclusion, I think. The important thing about all the sub-genres people write in the m/m genre is that they are all in the m/m genre. If that was ever to change, there might well be a case for a different (though transparently connected) pen name.
I love the cover of Dogfighters
Eee! I have a dragon dogfighting with a Mosquito bomber? What could be better?
Thank you! And I hope you get better soon!
I’m a similar book buyer as Tam. I will follow the releases of authors I like. I will buy the books that have stories that interest me st the time. I do not have
auto-buys. I am a book consumer, not an author customer. Like clothes, I find labels that work well for me and I will stop and look, but I don’t buy everything they make.
One of the strengths of this indie book market, is that authors aren’t stuck in a mold. With mainstream authors, their lines seem to be cookie cutter, mostly. I like freedom and variety. I can see the problem this causes for marketing. So if an author changes tracks there will be more marketing required and some time for the new series to catch on. Isn’t this the same as when one well-loved series comes to an end? Doesn’t it take time for momentum to return?
I was reading some business article, the author was saying that to stay successful a business must rework it’s product and marketing strategy every 7 years, or it will go stale. So just from a business angle,vs creative, it is NECESSARY to take the risk and branch out.
As far as combining genres, it would need to be a fantastic book to sell LOTS of copies. So it depends on writers’ goals for their business- driven by creativity mainly? Driven by market? I think the truely brilliant find a way to take what the population is used to and we work it to a different point. But this is the perspective of a logical business type person.
Oh, there will always be complaints when you take away a person’s fsvorite candy. Take it as a compliment and expect it. Congratulations for your accomplishments!
Thanks for the comment, Reggie! That’s very interesting, what you say about businesses needing to spruce up their look every 7 years or so. I often wondered why they kept doing that, but I suppose the alternative would be to start looking tired and dull. As I tend to hang around one enthusiasm for about 5 years and then move on, I find that rather cheering and convenient. It’s nice to think that the necessary comes naturally
It’s interesting that you think a combined genre book would necessarily appeal to less readers. It chimes with something I was thinking today – that while Fantasy fans wouldn’t necessarily mind a bit of history in their fantasy, historical fans would probably feel that a bit of fantasy in their history made it not real history at all. I don’t know why that hadn’t occurred to me before, except that I actually prefer my history to have a bit of fantasy in it. I must learn not to draw inferences from my own behaviour!
Thank you
I’m a multi-genre author (I think the only thing I haven’t done is Christian inspirational, Amish romance and police procedural), and, yeah, my readers tend to “follow” me across genres. I guess I’m less known for a genre but a mood – “gritty”, and it doesn’t seem to matter if it’s a gritty military, fantasy or sci-fi/cyberpunk or contemporary.
That said, I did get comments from people saying they wouldn’t read Scorpion, because they don’t like fantasy, or they’d only read Dark Soul from me because they much prefer contemporary. There are also people who refuse to read Counterpunch because it’s seen as a “slave story”.
I can only regret those limitations, but while my sales/royalties might take a hit, it really doesn’t matter to my Muse at all. I’ve considered using a pseudonym, but with my fifteen genres or so, that would be a lot of websites and twittering.
Thanks, Aleks
Yes, this is exactly the position I can see myself being in in a few years time. I don’t want to have to confine myself to one genre. I do love historicals, but I’ve tried contemporary, my first love is Fantasy, I enjoy a good ghost story and want to write more mystery. (I actually think False Colors *is* a Christian inspirational – it’s just a rather different Christianity than publishers of that genre espouse.) And that being so, it makes no sense for me to try and have a different name for each genre. At least, not in the wider field of m/m, and so far everything I’ve wanted to do has either been m/m romance, or at the very least fiction with gay heroes. I can’t really see that changing.
And yes, you’re right – a writer’s life is not worth living if they can’t go with what the Muse suggests. It’s a shame to lose people between one genre and the next, but hopefully you gain some too.
Absolutely (and, yes, the Christian content was very clear in False Colors, but it didn’t grate even on my atheist nerves, so you did something very right there
).
The good thing is, m/m readers seem very tolerant of genres generally, and I think, overall, the idea of “stay in your genre and don’t you DARE venture outside” is pretty passe these days. You even see multi-genre authors in the mainstream. (Even Stephen King did it, and I would expect the pressures on him to do do horror and only do horror would be pretty big.)
There’s so much more of a safety net these days. Now that you can self-publish, there’s no longer that fear that you might spend two years perfecting a book you can’t sell at all because it’s not the genre you’re known for. Not that I imagine that would ever apply to Stephen King!
As a reader, I’ve followed writers into other genres, although I’ve also had some “I love you, but I just can’t follow you there” moments. Generally, I think good writing is good writing and I’ll read it regardless of genre, but I find some genres harder to read than others. (Not at all the fault of the author, totally a personal preference.)
But as a writer, I’m finding that the more I write, the more interested I am in trying new things. I think contemporaries will always be my first love, but, for example, I’m just wrapping up a manuscript that’s sort of fantasy-ish. (It’s kind of fantasy lite, I think, or magical realism?) It has zero to do with markets for me; my muse just showed up one day and was like, “HERE’S a crazy idea. Run with it.” And I am such a big history nerd that I would love to write historical fiction one of these days.
As far as pseudonyms go, I can see using a different pseudonym for different kinds of pairings (m/m vs. m/f, for example) but not necessarily for different genres (there are a bunch of successful examples in the original post). I think it’s up to the author and how she chooses to market herself in the end. (The thought of creating another pseud for myself give me hives, personally, but then what would I do if I ever get around to writing this f/f novel I have an idea for? It’s kind of a pickle.)
Yes, I have an aversion to contemporary thrillers and to horror/paranormal where the monsters are the heroes, so I’d think twice about reading a sexy vampire tale by anyone. (But if it was Ursula LeGuin I’d read it anyway just to see what she’d done with it and to boggle a little at her doing something so OOC.) So yes, I know where you’re coming from there
I also know where you’re coming from with the desire to try new things. How will you know whether you like them if you don’t try them? And if your muse says “ooh, here’s an interesting idea,” you’re kind of helpless to resist. And why should you resist? It’s a free country
Yes, I’m coming round to the idea that as Angie says it’s OK to use a single pseud no matter how many sub-genres of m/m you write. It might even be OK to keep the same one for all varieties of romance, whether m/m, m/f or f/f. But it’s probably clearer if you change from Romance to plain [other genre with no romance at all.}
Can we agree on some definitions here? [blink/squint] I’m assuming that, here in m/m, the m/m itself is our main genre, or maybe GLBT romance is. So fireman m/m and cowboy m/m and historical m/m and urban fantasy m/m are all what I think of as subgenres.
When I talk about changing genres, I mean going from romance to SF, or fantasy to mystery, or erotica to horror. Contemporary romance to SF romance is just a subgenre switch, and I personally wouldn’t switch pseuds for that. Changing genres means a whole new set of shelves in the bookstore.
That’s what I mean by it, anyway. It sounds like some other folks are using different definitions. We’d probably have a more coherent discussion if we could agree on one set of definitions, whatever it is.
Angie
That’s a very good point, Angie. I think I was using ‘genre’ to mean ‘sub-genre within m/m romance.’ It feels like such a big deal to me to switch sub-genre that I hadn’t even considered the ramifications of not writing romance at all. However, I think you’re right and I shall adopt your terms at once.
I’ll admit to initial skepticism when coming across a fantasy- or SF-based book from someone known for contemporaries, only because the backbone of good fantasy/SF is the deep, rich and imaginative worldbuilding, which uses some different writerly “muscles” than contemporary settings. Some contemporary authors totally have the chops to write great F/SF, but I’ve also stumbled on many who simply insert a contemporary story into a cookie-cutter F/SF/Steampunk universe and call it a day.
It’s not hopeless, however — as mentioned, there are writers out there doing it well, such as Josh Lanyon, and I would add Amy Lane (esp. the Bitter Moon series) and ML Rhodes.
Despite those misgivings, I’d hate to see an author feel compelled to stay in a particular genre only because they’re known best for that type of work (literary typecasting, as it were.) If an historical author can write great urban fantasy, steampunk, hard SF or whatever, more power to her! She may drop some fans who aren’t keen on the new material, but there will be plenty of readers who happily discover a “new” voice in their favorite genre.
Thanks for the comment, Zen
I know what you mean, and I think there’s a commitment in both SF and Fantasy to engaging with the alien – looking at new and strange things, examining different points of view and playing with the knowledge that our modern contemporary way of looking at things is not the only possible way. For me, the strangeness of SF/F is one of its most vital components. One more pseudo-medieval Merlin knock-off is one too many.
But it’s true of any genre that 90% is going to be rubbish, so I’m willing to give anyone who is part of the 10% of one the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the question of whether they’ll be any good at anything else.
Hi Zen
I agree with you on a few of the M/M writers who moved into the F/SF genre and have written wonderful stories with great worldbuilding. I haven’t read Amy Lane’s series but Josh and M.L.Rhodes are great examples of authors who have made the transition beautifully. Who can top M.L’s world bulding in The Draegan Lords series?
I always use Ginn Hale as an example of someone who is a master of her craft in F/SF/Steampunk and I wish that more contemporary authors would read her books before attempting to write in genres that are probably the most difficult than any other to write.
I’ll try almost anything written by a writer I like, but if it doesn’t work, I’ll probably just wish s/he would find another plot bunny in the favored genre. Lois McMasters Bujold is like that–I love her Vorkosigan universe (including the two non-Miles books) but just don’t find that attraction to her fantasy series. Something similar happened with writer Joan Hess; I enjoyed her Maggody series up to the last book but won’t spoil by giving the reason, but her librarian series leaves me cold.
For me, it isn’t so much the genre as the characters. Bad or overworked ‘worldbuilding’ can be a nuisance (especially “futuristic” stories that are weak sci-fi minus the sci) but if the characters are compelling I can get past that. It’s not some much when or where they live, but who they are.
And if I think a writer is good, I’ll even try things I actively dislike, but I hope you aren’t inspired to write about the Roman Empire, the Tudors, or those damned Highlanders. I may have some Scottish genes, but I think those eras are kind of oversaturated.
Yes, I’d go along with that. I’m willing to be persuaded that anyone who can write one thing I love can also write something else, however different, which I like as well. But the proof of that pudding is in the eating, and if I tried it and it turns out to taste bad I wouldn’t force myself to have more.
Anne McCaffery is one like that for me – I loved her Pern series but didn’t like the one of her other books I read, and haven’t yet got around to trying any others.
Worldbuilding is an art like any other part of storytelling, I think – it’s like choosing how much of your research to show in historicals. A good writer will have neither too much nor too little. But yes, good characterisation is vital too. There’s no point having an amazing universe if you fill it with cardboard cut outs.
*g* I can’t ever see myself writing the Tudors (horrible people) or the Highlanders (I’m a Sassenacht myself and I’m not sure about writing people who would despise me.) But I have turned over the idea of writing something about Horace and Maecenas in Augustinian Rome. The friend of the Emperor and the poet who depends on him – together they chase actors and fight crime
If there’s a line, I’m tap-dancing all over it.
A member of my writer’s consortium dubbed me “The Queen of Cross-genre” since nothing I write falls into just one category. So far the adjective record is “erotic gay disabled pagan inspirational romance” followed closely by “dieselpink furries in a depression-era carnival.”
I follow writers, but only if they’re going places that interest me. One friend whose steampunk I love did a Japan based story about a kitsune. I didn’t go there because, despite being surrounded by Japanophiles, i have no interest.
Ooh, I’m all over that liminal stuff! The more genres (or sub-genres, I should say) you can get into one story, the more it’ll make me prick up my ears and go “wow, that sounds amazing!” I love the sound of “dieselpink furries in a depression-era carnival.” I love new stuff I haven’t even thought of before, and now I’m so ancient, that kind of thing is difficult to find.
I know what you mean about kitsune stories. Normally I’d say they leave me cold, but Heidi Cullinan did a fantastic book whose name escapes me (was it ‘Hero’?) where one of the love interests was a house. That had a kitsune in it but I didn’t care because my mind was blown by one of the love interests being a house. Whoa, talk about a fascinating premise! It’s a great book.
The kitsune part is the only interesting bit in _Seven Times A Woman_. I love Sara Harvey to pieces, but Japan is not my chosen milieu.
The dieselpunk furries came out n an anthology, and has been released as a stand-alone.
I read and loved the diesel-punked furries!
Thanks! I love those boys and they may yet get another story. What would WWII look like with constructs involved?
Ooh, gosh. Everyone seems so enthusiastic, and it makes me feel guilty as I feel very vulnerable about this one. I write in a huge number of fields – gay erotic, gay romance, literary, romantic comedy, bisexual thriller, fantasy, poetry, christian poetry, bible stories and most recently christian fiction and children’s fiction (with only the latter being under a pseudonym – Lori Olding).
The only real success I’ve had is with the gay fiction, which I’m utterly thrilled about – though I do thoroughly enjoy all the genres I work in. I think therefore that makes me very difficult to place, and both readers and publishers tend to look on that with (understandably) some level of suspicion.
With this in mind, my fantasy series (the Gathandrian trilogy – which does have two gay main characters in it, but there’s virtually no sex for a variety of reasons – perhaps the main one being that one of them spends quite a while trying to do away with the other!) has proved to be very unpopular indeed though it does have a publisher who’s just about hanging on in there in the face of having sold next to nothing, bless ‘em! So I suppose that reaction has made me feel very reluctant to try to cross any lines again to the extent to which I did for that particular series. Honestly it consumed my writing life, more or less, for about 3 years
) Which I don’t think I’ll have the courage to do again.
Still, I do have lots of other genres left to try, so you never know, eh …
Anne
xxx
It’s nice, isn’t it? There are no negative comment at all, as far as I’m aware. I don’t count an occasional friendly warning that you may lose readers by switching, because it strikes me as a valid point, and not really a reason not to do it at all.
Of course, it may be that we’re all confused in our terms and actually talking about switching sub-genres within m/m romance, rather than switching from Romance to something else. OTOH, I’m also interested in doing that too (I want to write some plain, non-romantic Fantasy and/or mystery too one day, so I find your experience encouraging in the sense that you can do all sorts, even though I wish for your sake that it had all been equally successful with your m/m.
But maybe another Fantasy would hit the big time? Getting published at all is evidence that you must be good.
I talked about subgenres. But my newest book isn’t gay romance at all. It’s horror. There are a lot of bisexual folks in it and 3 sex scenes (only the gay one is explicit). I have a mega church with blood knee-deep in the front of it, a gay couple kept around as decapitated heads (hooked to a computer and giving snarky advice), death, dismemberment and all the stuff that goes with a vampire apocalypse.
I’ve done straight erotica and lesbian, and I have readers for each of them, but not as many as for my gay stuff. I’m interested in seeing how I do with something outside the “Pink Ghetto.”
I’ll be interested too, as I hope to follow your example one day. I was just saying that I hoped for a writer to follow into horror, which is currently one of my do not read genres, so I’ll have to try yours and broaden my horizons.
Jan 27. Power in the Blood.
http://www.stormmoonpress.com/books/Power-In-the-Blood.aspx
The ebook is $4.75 right now on pre-order. Print is $7.79 for a trade paperback. (It’s about 72,000 words, so 180ish pages in trade) And I am in love with the cover.
It’s a cross between paranormal, urban fantasy and horror. The monsters are all about sex with you, but they’ll eat you too. And sometimes the humans are bigger monsters than the vampires.
Hi Anne and may I ask you how I may find this Gafandrian trilogy, because nothing comes up on Amazon
? See that may be a reason not to come with new pseudonyms sometimes (although obviously it is not my business), I am just saying that your mm readers just may want to follow you at least to some places. (No Christian fiction for me though, sorry 
. And I am not just saying it to flatter you, because some of your mm offerings did not really work for me, but overall I think you are fantastic writer and where oh where I can find those books? Like now? Wave can tell you I have no patience sometimes and love instant gratification LOL. And it sounds like two main characters were enemies initially? And they do not stay enemies? Pleease where can I find those books. pretty please? 
Must stop till I completely embarass myself.
Gosh, thanks, both! Yes, I’m in the middle of writing a more gay erotic fantasy novella at the moment, Alex – The Taming of the Hawk – but have had to leave it pending for now as the short story world calls! So perhaps that will be more popular? You never know.
Sirius – thanks so much for your comments – much appreciated. Yes, I know I’m very much a wild card in the respect that some things work for some readers whilst others certainly don’t – must sort my own head out at some point, when I have the courage!! Scary thought …
And the first of the Gathandrian Trilogy is called The Gifting – it’s written under my own name and is on both Amazon US and UK. The website for the trilogy is: http://www.gathandria.com – thank you, but I do understand if you decide it’s not for you.
Hugs galore
Anne
xxx
I must try the Gathandrian Trilogy too, after all, I know I like your stuff, and I know I like fantasy, so it seems like an automatic winner to me.
Good luck with the gay fantasy novella *and* all the short stories. It’s nice to know they’ll all be worth waiting for.
Thanks, Alex!
A busy year for us both beckons – that’s for certain
Anne
xxx
Yep, it just keeps getting busier. There must be a point where nothing else can be crammed in, but I haven’t found it yet
Great post, Alex! I know we’ve talked about my strong resistance to reading the fantasy subgenre before, but I will dip my toes in again with your book. I’m the same with scifi – I do love good scifi and have read a huge number of classics in the past, so to see it done poorly is aggravating, to say the least. And half-arsed fantasy worldbuilding is just intolerable to me.
I’m happy for writers to change subgenre as many times as they wish, but I’m probably more likely to read contemporary stories than any other. I’m not entirely sure why, but it’s probably something to do with mainly reading at either end of the day when I’m tired, and can’t cope with too much detailed worldbuilding to keep track of. It’s a lot easier to remember what’s going on in a contemporary.
Thanks Jo! Well, Under the Hill has a sort of contemporary backbone, if you see what I mean? The spooky things that happen do so at least half of the time in Matlock in Derbyshire. So it’s a case of Faeries versus bluff no nonsense Northerners, resentful at having the ferret-racing interrupted by eldritch creatures from the ether again.
But I make no promises about my worldbuilding, as it’s not my place to say whether it’s good enough or not. I’ll leave it to the readers to decide that.
Yes, SF is a hard genre to do right. Space Opera is easier, but even then the readers are looking for genuinely new ideas, not rehashes of Star Wars or Star Trek, because of all genres SF/F is the one where it’s most vital that you do something original – someone no one else has done before. And that’s a really tall order to set infront of yourself as a writer unless you already have the idea and are prepared to put the work in to grow it.